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The Prescott Daily Courier | Prescott, Arizona

home : opinions : letters September 15, 2014


3/26/2013 9:58:00 PM
Letter: Using connector not worth the risk

EDITOR:

I fully agree with Joe Scott regarding the speed limit on the new connector. I tried it once and have since stayed away because 25 is far too slow for the size of that roadway. And no way am I going to risk a ticket with the police sitting there waiting for someone to go 26 miles per hour.

Mary Alden

Prescott




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Reader Comments

Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013
Article comment by: YEA AZ

SHUT UP! STAY OFF THE CONNECTOR TO 69...THE YAVAPAI'S HAVE A RIGHT TO DO WHAT THEY WANT ON THEIR LAND.

YOU ARE THE SAME COMPLAINERS REGARDING YOUR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, OWNING A GUN, ETC.

GET A REAL LIFE AND STAY OFF THE CONNECTOR ON THE YAVAPAI RESERVATION.

THE YAVAPAI INDIANS DON'T NEED THE LIKES OF YOU TRAELLING ON THEIR PROPERTY! IT IS THEIR INDIVIDUAL RIGHT WITHOUT GOV'T INTERVENTION! YOU ASKED FOR IT!


Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013
Article comment by: YEA hOOS

Yikes!! Az folks get it, we have experience and knowledge of Indians and AZ...you newbee's, Ca's, NY, midwest...good grief! Doesn't matter what you think, go home if you don't like the AZ way...the Yavapai's can do what the wish and we love it!

Go find someplace else to bitch newcomers...you are really good at bitching without knowledge, but here is to your getting mega tickets from the Yavapai Tribe on the connector!!!!


Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013
Article comment by: @ Do you really trust the collective wisdom of area drivers that much?

It may come as a surprise, but virtually all non-tribal speed zoning in Arizona is based on the principle of setting speed limits as near as practicable to the speed at or below which 85 percent of the drivers are traveling. Check out the ADOT website or call the PPD traffic section to determine how speed limits are set.

Traffic engineering experience has shown approximately 85% of the motorists drive at a speed that is reasonable and prudent. Such speed limits encourage voluntary compliance because they appear reasonable to the public. Those 15% of drivers who will not comply with reasonable speed limits are the drivers who are subject to enforcement action.

There is a common belief the mere posting of speed limit signs will cause drivers to react accordingly. This has proven not true and is why posted speed limits must be realistic to receive compliance.

Unrealistically low speed limits will invite violation by responsible drivers. Enforcement of unreasonably low limits set up the so-called "speed trap."

Sorry that you would not hinge your safety on the collective judgment of the bulk of drivers around here. I certainly have not seen speed demon mayhem breakout within the city limits. Why you ask? Because the city speed limits are reasonable and were determined by a traffic engineering study.

I had to laugh at your inference that somehow I would use the 85% percentile formula to determine other traffic laws. Red lights, DUI, failure to signal...nope, they all have legislative provisions in the Arizona Revised Statues.

Do not extrapolate anything from my comments beyond this: In my opinion the roadway speed limit is about 10-15 MPH below what is reasonable taking the physical design of the roadway and it associated risks into consideration.

And again, I fully understand the area is within a sovereign nation and they can do as they please without having to explain the methodology used to anyone.


Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013
Article comment by: Do you really trust the collective wisdom of area drivers that much?

"The 85th percentile speed method is also attractive because it reflects the collective judgment of the vast majority of drivers as to a reasonable speed for given traffic and roadway conditions."

Hahahahaha. One man's "attractive" is another man's ugly! I certainly wouldn't hinge my safety on the collective judgment of the bulk of drivers around here!!

Think about it. What other traffic laws would you want to be based on some arbitrary percentile of what oh-so-wise Joe Citizens choose to do? Running red lights? Failure to signal? Distraction per cell phone? Hey, if most people judge drinking and driving at a certain blood-alcohol level okey-dokey, then it is! Legally!! Not.

Using the 85th percentile to set speed limits is going the way of the dinosaur, as well it should. Nonmotorists, neighborhoods and quality-of-life issues are finally starting to get some long-overdue respect. Some cities were forerunners in this, and are flourishing. Prescott is not among them. Being a cyclist or pedestrian here takes some serious guts and an ability to take swift, evasive action. Most of the folks around here can barely manage to get out of the way of those grocery cart warriors at Fry's or Safeway who yell, "Excuse me!", but really mean, "Get the &#@! out of MY way!"

As for the connecter, its speed limit is not up to me or to you. It's up to the tribe, which, by the way, absolutely does not need the slim slice of revenue yielded from speeding tickets. The tribe may also embrace priorities and values that differ markedly from your own formulaic perspective.









Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013
Article comment by: john biketrail

The connector would make an excellant bike trail--however the bikers would have to lower their speed to the ridiculous limit.
Going west on 69 to 89, it is faster to use the 69/89 interchange@ Buckys.
Going from 89 to 69 it is faster to use the parkway unless one is going to the vast wasteland of frontier village.


Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013
Article comment by: Bob Roberts

While I agree that 25 is far too low for a 4-lane roadway, I would like to point out that I've used it several times and have yet to see a police officer monitoring speeds.

Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013
Article comment by: Attentive Listener

So don't use it. I'm sure the Tribe will be heartbroken.

Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013
Article comment by: J B

You people make me laugh. You'd go crazy on many military installations where the speed limit can be 15 mph.

Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: dog bone

25 mph is too slow when you have to hold your brakes all the way down the hill. As far as doing 10 miles over the speed limit, anything over 5 mph over should be given a ticket.

Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: No vehicle control?

This comes down to hand-eye coordination and multi-tasking, two vital needs to drive a car safely. If you cannot keep your car at the posted speed limit on this road to avoid an expensive ticket, then maybe you should turn in your drivers license. It might take at the most three minutes of concentration on your part. However that may be two minutes more than possible with the attention spans of most. Maybe it IS best for most of you to go the long way around and spend more money on gas. It makes the connector road much safer for me when I travel it.

Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: @ MARY

OK Mary, so don't use it. Who do you think you're hurting. 'Taint a toll road, you know.

Me? I will use it, at the posted speed limit, from 89 to 69, as the alternatives are lousy..

But when returning, I will take 69 to 89 north.

Win Win


Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: Radar Proofing

@ Steel, I tried to warn you, having it on good authority, you are not equipped to play in traffic. You have the story backward, which may be the result of being focused upon your rear view, looking at the past. Remember what you were told about the traffic capacity of the old and new interchanges and why the connector is the south bound 89 to 69 connection. All of these things were discussed at the ADOT meetings and the full page adds with maps in this newspaper and you as well.

The Tribe could have given all the land desired (and did), except it is held in trust by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. That technicality aside, it would not have improved the capacity nor eliminated the way the lanes worked with the dangerous crossover weaving, the havoc with nearby commercial driveways and side streets. Thanks to the Tribe, a better design became an option.

However, if you go over to the Tribal Transportation Department, they can sell you a Ghost Shirt that will make you immune to the cops' radar guns. It would go well with your tin foil hat.




Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: fugue state

Please tell me you're not serious.

Are you trolls seriously trying to intimate that the Tribe built this road and set an unreasonably slow speed limit on it just to generate revenue??

I know none of you trust any government, but that is ludicrous even by your whacked out, paranoid standards.


Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: Continued Whiners

Bottom Line: Put a cork in it Mr.&Ms Whiner. The tribe owns the land and you have no say so whatsoever.

If you don't like what speed they set, stay off their land. There are other avenues for you to travel without using their connector.

A Reader's Comment from another article regarding the connector and your continued whining about everything and is worthwhile repeating here.

"If you don't like what the Yavapai Tribe does with their land...please remember, you do not have to drive through their land and you didn't have to walk the Trail of Tears." Now whine about that.



Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: O.K. Mr. Steele

You wrote "this bypass was called for as the Yavapai-Prescott Tribe would not give up land for a proper interchange for 89 - 69", I don't remember it that way. Could you refresh my memory and show us where the tribe "would not give up land".

Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: The Rev

Makes and models may vary but cruise control in 2009 Subarus will function at 25MPH.

(Nice post Parade.)


Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: Arbitrary Speed Limit

I certainly don�t think most of the comments on this issues are advocating driving faster than the posted speed limit. However, as I do, most think the speed limit is arbitrary. A speed limit is established to advise drivers of the maximum reasonable and safe operating speed under favorable conditions.

Speed limits are based on the concept that roadways can operate safely at certain maximum speeds under ideal conditions, taking into consideration actual and potential hazards then existing.

I wonder how the speed limit was determined? I fully understand the area is within a sovereign nation and they can do as they please without having to explain the methodology used to anyone. In my opinion the roadway speed limit is about 10-15 MPH below what is reasonable taking the physical design of the roadway and it associated risks into consideration.

Hopefully the tribe will give some consideration to the most commonly accepted engineering approach of setting a speed limit based on the 85th percentile speed�the speed at which 85 percent of free-flowing traffic is traveling at or below.

Setting a speed limit based on the 85th percentile speed was originally based on safety. Specifically, traveling at or around one standard deviation above the mean operating speed yields the lowest crash risk for drivers. Therefore, the 85th percentile speed separates acceptable speed behavior from unsafe speed behavior that disproportionately contributes to crash risk.

The 85th percentile speed method is also attractive because it reflects the collective judgment of the vast majority of drivers as to a reasonable speed for given traffic and roadway conditions. This is aligned with the general policy sentiment that laws should not make people acting reasonably into law-breakers. Setting a speed limit even 5 mph below the 85th percentile speed can make almost half the drivers illegal setting a speed limit 5 mph above the 85th percentile speed will likely make few additional drivers legal.


Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: The tribe doesn't want PV to get all the speed trap money

Four lanes, center divider, nothing fronting road on either side with a ridiculously low speed limit=speed trap. Nothing wrong with stating the truth.

Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: Parade Fan

Can I just 'Like" Parade's comment? You are awesome!

Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: Just Good Understanding of the Arizona Drivers Mind

The Yavapai folks just understand the driving public's mind set. Most driving idiots will drive 9 or 10 MPH over the speed limit no matter what it is set at. Therefore they set it at 25 knowing that means 35MPH in most drivers minds. Thirty five MPH is a safe and reasonable speed considering the steepness and curves involved in their very nice parkway. Thanks to our local tribal friends who have tried to undo ADOT's poorly conceived intersection. You know the one where traveling from the north there is no way to turn east and head toward Phoenix using this, multimillion dollar, so-called intersection!

Thanks again Yavapai People!


Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: Whats Reasonable

Bob, statutes for speed are set by "reasonableness" and not unilaterally in most cases with the exception of PV/Prescott. After a traffic survey, road width, egress points are taken into consideration and then speeds are set. I supposed with your mind set, if speeds are set at 15 mph on a freeway, that would be fine with you. Talk of sheep following the wolf,,,your liberal sense of logic is amazing.

Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: @ uh what

Uh - Chino Valley is notorious for giving tickets to drivers going less than 5 miles per hour over the speed limit.

I have a copy of mine if you want proof.


Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: bob grant

The wreck by Uhaul showed how useful this connector is.The Pd did not direct people to it ,which is dumb.also telling people to use Glassford hill in PV would have eased things a lot .


Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: Tom Steele

Remember, Mary, this bypass was called for as the Yavapai-Prescott Tribe would not give up land for a proper interchange for 89 - 69. By ADOT allowing the interchange connector from 89 to east bound 69 to be eliminated, this bypass became necessary. Maybe ADOT had no choice seeing as the Federal Tribal rules could over rule. Anyway, the potential of accidents is probably as high now as before the 25 Million interchange was built.

Posted: Wednesday, March 27, 2013
Article comment by: Byte Me

If you have driven down the connector it is obvious that it is just an expensive speed trap. Wait until they start patrolling it and handing out tickets. Cheaper and faster to go around.


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