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home : opinions : opinions July 24, 2014


9/5/2013 6:00:00 AM
Letter: Clarifying facts is not Bush-bashing

EDITOR:

In response to Doug Patton's Aug. 10 column calling on President Obama to stop blaming George W. Bush, what Patton should have said is that it's time for journalists to stop insinuating that Obama is to blame for Bush's mistakes, requiring Obama to set the record straight time after time.

Whenever Obama is thus obliged to remind reporters that he "inherited a big debt," he is in fact careful never to mention Bush by name. Obama's gentlemanly restraint in this regard hardly constitutes "Bush-bashing" and is far less than Bush deserves. Excoriation or incarceration are better words than blame for what Bush deserves.

My advice for Obama's critics is to start putting the blame for our economic woes where it historically belongs instead of racking their brains to find fault where none exists.

Roger Murray

Prescott




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Reader Comments

Posted: Sunday, September 08, 2013
Article comment by: Namby Pamby Liberal

@Thomas Paine- That is the dumbest definition of "propoganda" I have ever heard, since it also applies to "argument" and loosely even to "explanation". Perhaps you meant to say the use of MISinformation?

Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: Sleepy Hollow

@Michelle Star....try living at the Bates Motel, you would make more sense.......

Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: Joanie Beale

Hold on, everyone, it's going to be a rocky road ahead.

Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: thomas paine

propaganda by definition is the use of information to further a position or influence opposition to an opponents position. how exactly is that not what msnbc, cnn, fox, and npr (and most media outlets) do on a daily basis? the claim that there is not an equivallency between fox and msnbc is prima facia false and can only be explained by the bias of those who claim otherwise. As for the original letter, Obama has been in office for five years, he needs to stop blaming Bush and take credit and blame for his actions. I don't recall another recent president that continued to blame his woes on his predecessor into his second term. Obama needs to stop acting like a kid on a playground saying 'but he started it' and start acting like an adult.

Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: Hope you Can change

The only persons that claim Obama is "the worst president ever" are a few right winged wackos. But hey I thought Cater was the worst ever. Oh yeah I heard that about Bush -2, too.....

Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: Peace Nik

JK, Bravo! Hillary, 2016. Our current "Do Nothing" Congress enshrined in hate, is our best defense. The only thing they can agree on is how to rob seniors of Social Security, destroy unions and the social net, elevate the Uber rich, and make our country a "Corporate Dictatorship." The fact they are against anything our President might do in this instance is a plus!


Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: Tired of it all

WOW!! Roger Murray, your my ZERO!!! This is the WORST leader in our history. He makes Jimmy Carter look like the democrats Ronald Regan! If everyone were to send a package of Pampers to the White House it wouldn't be enough for this .. ! I know for sure your drink of choice is Kool Aid.

Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: Tom Steele

Eat Your Greens. as a coward you promote facts on MSNBC. I challenge you to review the Travon Martin -Zimmerman coverage and say what you do. FOX has more true pro-con contributors and you see the difference every day. And you better start eating something besides greens as you are sounding like a liberal frog.

Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: Eat the Truck and Driver too !

Hope & Change anyone?

Your lack of substance attempt at derision, seems to reveal more about your hope and change. Sorry to disappoint, but the guy we elected a Harvard Law grad, works for us. Your guy worked for his cronies and presided over years of corporatist corruption, lies and war profiteering.

I'll take Obama on his worst day over anything that Republican would try and con us with. Too bad you can't see what happened was far better than your hope and change that would have been anther swindle of the American people.


Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: The Rev

Tom VonD you are a goodman.

Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: Hope & Change anyone?

When there exists a president that has been declared the worst president in American history, there exists nothing good to report so the supporters blame others for the problems (even after almost 5 years later).
A good president would move forward, and formulate change rather than blame those before him.
Mr. obama needs to get on the ball, time is ticking with only 3-1/4 years before we see change!
I remember all those people crying when obama was running for president, like he was a savior from the heavens.
I know how we all feel after almost 5 years later!
All your editorials, like this one tell us you are not pleased with your man obama at ALL!
Welcome to the club of disappointed, hopeless, and searching for change!
Additionally, those that voted for him twice, are finding that his second term seems even worse than his first!
Anyone obama endorses in 2016 will not have any chance for election.



Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: J K

We have unwittingly discovered how to keep America out of war. Just keep electing Democrats to the Oval Office. Here 's how it will always work.
Any democrat president who proposes war will automatically be opposed by the obstructionist republicans who are traditionally hawks and the liberal democrats who are traditionally anti-war. Conversely, any republican president who proposes war will automatically be hailed by the republicans as a patriot and anyone opposing will be labeled a traitor.
Hillary in 2016 to keep us out of war. You don't think the obstructionism would really diminish with Hillary in office do you?


Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013
Article comment by: Fox's Franken Obama

@ Eat Your Greens,
I reject your false equivalence. One can't point to false propaganda that is a product of MSNBC. One might have a perspective that views that as being false, but that would mean you were uninformed by all other available sources. MSNBC has a bias, just as the AZ Republic has had a bias.

But I have some Death panel, Benghazi, IRS, reverse racist Kenyan colonialist mentality, or maybe a little powdered Beck, Palin, Hannity slime slinger character assassin, Huckster Hucklebee, or maybe you prefer some pure birtherism.

Watch what you want, but don't be fooled into thinking there is a comparison between conservative - liberal bias, what's your pleasure News. There is a qualitative difference between a news organization and the Fox cable propaganda thing. And, unless you be thinking that the Fox thingy is a Republican biased news organization, you would be wrong. Think check out counter tabloid and the billionaires utopia, if they can get enough people outraged and they can drive the economy, destroy the unions and own the legislatures. It's the propaganda that matters not the truth that journalism seeks. The straight-up news items and field reporting are their mask of legitimacy. You ideology is highjacked and corrupted by years of false propaganda. Republicans to they the corporatist, are but the means to an end. And, it ain't about you. Like the last time.


Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: Tom Von Deck

@Rev: I don't believe the NYT regularly reported that the Community Reinvestment Act and other government programs tanked the economy. 75% of the subprime mortgages had nothing to do with these programs. This is one NYT article I could find.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/nyregion/04about.html?em&_r=0

I tried looking for other articles with serious reporting (not Op-Eds) that blamed it on these government programs, but none turned up. It's mostly Paul Krugman and letter writers that come up.

I did also find that it was housing advocacy groups like ACORN that were warning that the subprime mortgages would tank the economy.


Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: Attentive Listener

Hmmm. The facts certainly don't show Mr. Bush in a very positive light. Are we sure they aren't a form of Bush-bashing?

Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: The Rev

Though I am not Born Here but - Tom VonD would you doubt the authoritativeness of The NYT? In my heart I know Bill was trying to do something good for The People but those folks were not ready for it, yet. No blame, just a hope we might do better.


@michelle star
Why do you lower case your name?


Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: Hokas Pokas

A rather ignorant letter, Mr. Murray.

Every president inherits some problems. It could very easily be argued that President George W. Bush inherited serious problems from the Clinton administration. The difference being that President Bush, his family and is administration were far more professional, experienced, skilled and qualified to stoop to such tactics. He never directly blamed Clinton. In fact, I can't remember ANY president doing so.

Obama, and his followers, however, are exempt.


Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: @ Eat Your Greens

re @@Tom Steele: I'm sure the Fox News viewers feel the same way about Fox as you do about MSNBC. As I said, whichever one agrees with our own personal bias is the one which we consider "objective." Which of course neither is.

Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: Of Course.....

I personally agree with Cornel West who has termed BHO as a "Republican in Blackface." One thing is always forgotten in these debates. It is the fact, we have hardly seen much "progressive reform" under this President. He leads from behind, and seems not to believe very strongly about anything. His resume is much like JFK's before Dallas. High in "Profile" and lacking much "Courage"

As for the the rightist commentators here, from an administrative POV exclusively, Bush had a failed Presidency . One would suggest that as emotionally satisfying the race and class and culture baiting may feel here on these boards, its continuation is demographic suicide electorally. The nation does not look like the Prescott of Steve Blair or the America
of Sean Hannity. A return to the more inclusive "big tent" philosophy of Ronald Reagan politically would help, but not until immigration is dealt with by the GOP somehow, it's hard to see much hope in 2016 and beyond.

Guessing what historians will say in 2113 is the definition of speculation. Given all the unaddressed climatic and societal issues and a world full of unchecked and proliferating WMD, we can only hope humanity , much less our country will be here at all. One guess of their verdict is that the years of 2001- 2017 will be viewed as we view the Presidents prior to the Civil War .We are sadly living through the second of consecutive failed presidencies .





Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: @ Michelle Star

Affordable health care insurance? Really? At what cost? It is clear that you aren't informed on the actual ramifications. Are you aware of what this absurd bill has done to the hard working families who have responsibly carried health insurance? How about where the funding is going to come from? Did you do your research on what it will do to social security? If you work for a living this should concern you greatly!! If you are using the system in one way or another, I can see how this would be a benefit. Hey, why get out and work hard when the government will take care of you? Seems to be the average mentality now days.

Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: Mr Maverick

Bush, Obama, etc. are all the same. Both either started or continued wars against countries that can take care of themselves and are none of our business. Our last great President was assassinated. The rest of them have been worthless which defines politicians.

Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: Tom Von Deck

@Born Here: I'm willing to read some history. Can you tell me which historians you've been reading? I know of some great anonymous historians whose chain emails get forwarded a lot. It's probably an indicator of authoritativeness.

Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: Jane Gray

Golly, some of you guys do love your Kool-Aid. The President just keeps pouring and you just keep gulping it down. Now he's in Russia saying he never drew a red line on the use of chemical weapons in Syria, never mind that he's on video saying it.
As soon as he repeats it a time or two and blames the UN and Congress a few more times, you will believe him. You can't help yourselves. You are TRUE BELIEVERS.


Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: Born Here

If you really want to know who ruined the economy, chcek out the beginnings with Presidents Carter and Clinton. Read about Fannie & Freddie and believing that everyone is entitled to own a home. They are NOT! Many believe that Clinton left a surplus. On paper he may have. His budget was balanced by Newt Gingrich, who deserves the credit for balancing the budget. Read up on your history!

Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013
Article comment by: Tom Von Deck

@Just Saying: I agree. All of them are guilty of war crimes. You can't be president of the largest empire in history and not be. Just part of the job.


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