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home : opinions : opinions July 22, 2014


10/3/2013 6:00:00 AM
Letter: United Nations key to preventing wars

EDITOR:

Courier columnist Buz Williams recently urged the U.S. to leave the UN ("We need rules for declaring wars," Sept. 10). He somehow managed to ignore - among many other things - the facts that (in line with Churchill's dictum that jaw-jaw is always better than war-war) there have been no major wars during the three generations that the UN has existed; that the UN has recorded many political successes starting with Trieste in 1949; that UNICEF, UNESCO, etc. have been of truly great worldwide benefit; and, that New York City has become a quasi-would capital due to the presence of the UN.

As the nation-state becomes less dominant due to growing regionalism at the sub-national level and increasing blocs at the supra-national level, some form of world government - perhaps a loose federation - becomes increasingly probable. The UN is a link, backed historically by the Congress of Vienna and the League of Nations, in this development. If the UN were to disappear tomorrow, something quite similar would develop naturally and rapidly in order to fulfill its very necessary functions.

Williams' whole approach - that if you other guys aren't absolutely perfect just like I am and don't always agree with me and won't let me win the game every single time, then I'm just going to kick you out and take my marbles and go home by myself and sulk - was so simplistic as to be ludicrous. Instead we should be trying seriously to influence and improve the reality of the UN's evolution rather than putting and rejecting it. Isolationism really is not a viable option.

Dan Fearn

Prescott




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Reader Comments

Posted: Saturday, October 12, 2013
Article comment by: Frank Lee

How long has it been since American mercenaries have "won" a WAR?
They violate their oaths by participating in Unconstitutional undeclared invasions and occupations. They leave the regions of their attacks and occupations worse.
They extort money from the majority of us for their evil misadventures.
They criticize us if we criticize their extortion as if we do not have the freedom of speech and press.
They are oath violating mercenaries.
They are not heroes and I do not "thank them for their service”. They serve themselves.
.


Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2013
Article comment by: @ Alan Whitney

I would assume that you would be well practiced at talking to yourself.

I did have a different moniker, but you didn't seem to like that one either...remember "Retired FAT AZ LEO", guess that one made you feel the same.

Oh well, I'll just keep trying.


Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2013
Article comment by: I have a question

No major wars?! Korea, Vietnam, Iraq/Afganistan were those just pretend soldiers dying?

Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2013
Article comment by: Alan Whitney

Dearest @Alan Whitney,

I am so sorry you feel that way.

But if we are to have discourse, wouldn't it be nice if you could think-up a proper name? (Communicating with "@Alan Whitney feels uncomfortably like talking to myself.)

I mean, you COULD use your real name, but I guess you don't have the sand for it. Or perhaps you think yourself clever. (!?)

So. I will attempt to help you out. By suggesting some possible names that you could use. (I DO love an intentional sentence fragment! Do you?)

For example, we could go the geographic route: "Prescott Prevaricator" jumps to mind. Then there is "Bloated Bradshaw Bumpkin..."

Or, we might explore the philosophical. How about "Simpering Simeon?" (But that would slander Apes.) "Porcine Ponderer?" I have it! "Morbid Maunderer! (Do YOU admire alliteration?)

I'm sure you get the drift.

So, if you don't like any of my kind suggestions, put your (very) little mind to it, and see what you can do!

I am atwitter to see the product of your effort!

Hugs,
Your Pen-Pal,
Alan





Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2013
Article comment by: Moderate, independent, and proud of it

@ Isolationist and Proud of It

I just gave you a big one -- the first Gulf War, when the international community under UN auspices forcibly evicted Saddam Hussein's troops after their brutal invasion and occupation of Kuwait. The Korean War was similar, in that it was a UN action that successfully prevented North Korea (supported by China and the USSR) from overrunning South Korea after an initial invasion. Space prevents me from citing more.

More generally and more important, the UN was a key component in the world order the U.S. constructed after WWII to prevent the dual catastrophes of the preceding decades -- the Great Depression and the Second World War. The IMF, World Bank, and General Agreement on Trades and Tariffs -- all UN institutions or creations -- were crucial to promoting the remarkable economic and financial stability and free trade that benefited the entire world (and the U.S. more than any country) over the past 70 years. Bilateral programs like the Marshall Plan also played an important role. Similarly, the UN's security institutions (including the non-proliferation regime), bolstered by U.S. bilateral and regional efforts, notably NATO, helped contain Communism and prevent another World War, as Mr. Fearn points out. Now we can argue about the relative contributions of this or that program, and we can cite the UN's screw-ups and shortcomings, but to say it didn't help us or we'd have been better off without it is sheer ignorance.


Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013
Article comment by: @ Alan Whitney

You know, when you endorse an issue - no matter if you are completely correct or not - your name being attached to the comment just lowers the level of competence and believably of the topic.

Do us all a favor and just go check into the Old COP Retirement home, and leave the grown-up talk to those still able to utilize their full cognitive abilities.


Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013
Article comment by: Alan Whitney

The UN is an anti-American, wealth redistributing organization that wants to rule the world.

If peace depends on it, then the price of peace is too dear.




Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013
Article comment by: Steve Baker

The U. N. should be given an eviction notice!

Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013
Article comment by: Cordes Coyote

@Isolationist- instead of a list of its failures, why don't you provide us with a list of what you expected it to do in the first place. Then we can have an intelligent discussion as to why you think it failed.

Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013
Article comment by: Isolationist and Proud of It

@ Moderate, independent, and proud of it:

Please provide us with a list of the great U.N. accomplishments and I will provide all with the list of failures


Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013
Article comment by: JM S

Maybe we should put God back into our lives, schools, and government. He's been shunned for a long time. He has the power to do anything if we allow him.

Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2013
Article comment by: Attentive Listener

@UN troops at your door- Your screen name is a joke, right? Unless you used to live in Bosnia, I guarantee you have never had UN troops at your door.

Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: UN troops at your door

Dan,
This article is a joke right?


Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: Moderate, independent, and proud of it

@Isolationist and Proud of It

Thanks for arguing my point. NEITHER the latest war in Iraq nor the war in Afghanistan, both of which started under George W. Bush, were UN actions, and, yes, they have been messy. I contend that had we used the UN in those two conflicts, like George W's father did in the first Iraq (Gulf) war, they would have been far less messy and FAR less costly, like the Gulf War was precisely because of UN involvement.

There are no "participating UN countries" in Iraq and Afghanistan because the UN has no role in either conflict, so your comment on cost sharing makes no sense. The UN has many worthy programs throughout the world that contribute to stability, security, and public health and safety, and there is no country in the world that benefits more from a stable, secure world than the United States. For all this, we contribute between 20% and 30% of the costs of most programs and a similar share of member state dues, not the 150% figure that you erroneously cite.

I don't deny that the UN has its problems (as if our Congress didn't), but on balance it has served U.S. interests well. That's why every U.S. President has seen fit to use it, not because it's politically correct.






Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: Frank Lee

How long has it been since American mercenaries have "won" a WAR!
They violate their oaths by participating in Unconstitutional undeclared invasions and occupations. They leave the regions of their attacks and occupations worse.
They extort money from the majority of us for their evil misadventures.
They criticize us if we criticize their extortion as if we do not have the freedom of speech and press.
They are oath violating mercenaries.
They are not heroes and I do not "thank them for their service”. They serve themselves.
.


Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: @ Tom Von Deck

Waiter, I will have what he is smoking please...I need an escape from reality!

Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: Tom Von Deck

@@Tom Von Deck: The drug war started here. Not sure about now, but in its prime, the POTUS used to certify countries who obeyed the USA by putting certain drug laws on the books. There were consequences for nations who didn't meet the standards. The USA war on drugs became a global one. It's not like leaders of all these nations woke up one day and said "let's throw people in jail for marijuana."

Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: Tom Von Deck

@Rev: I tend to go with the purple swirl. Sometimes I like to tattoo it first to liven the dinner table.

Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: @ Tom Von Deck

So Mr. Von Deck, is Mr. Anslinger to blame for the eighty-nine (89) other countries were marijuana is illegal or how about those nine countries that have either carried out or legislated capital punishment for cannabis trafficking?

Yes, Mr. Von Deck, the United States is an evil empire bent on demonizing marijuana throughout the world!


Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: The Rev

GySgt and Tom VonD. How do you take your steak? Me, blue. Good meat, like a good message, requires little cooking.

Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: That is Gunnery Sergeant to you

@ Tom Von Dork

Oh my gosh! You mean a highly educated woman, who WILLINGLY disobeyed the law, got caught, and was given probation, found it inconvenient to have to check in and out with her probation officer because SHE felt herself above the law that we unwashed - uneducated obey? Yes Mr. Von Dork, that is a tragic case.

Sorry there cupcake, but maybe in your deluded world it is okay for citizens to simply ignore the laws they decide they just don't like (you know like that one I hate that says I can't give you the smack in the head you so desperately need), but in the one I live in, we live by the standard that our fellow citizens have set (you know, those pesky laws) and we accept the consequences for our actions (if we decide to violate those pesky laws).

P.S. Tell your cow friend that I need some new leather boots and there ain't no law against skinning a cow suffering from MCD.


Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: Isolationist and Proud of It

@ Moderate, independent, and proud of it:
How were our interests served by going through the U.N., ever? Any way you look at it, Iraq and Afghanistan remain disasters. And you don't think that we furnished, at no cost, the participating U.N. countries with money, weapons, fuel and training? It likely cost us $1.50 on the dollar to be politically correct and employ use of the U.N. in any "joint"endeavor. Then we have to take into account the membership fees that we waste on corrupt membership. Remember any of those shady "Food for Oil" deals for Iraq? How 'bout when we were called "Stingy Americans" by Norway's Jan Egeland during the Tsunami relief? This is only the tip of the iceberg. Egeland was/is only one of many self-serving types in the U.N.


Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: Tom Von Deck

@Private Gommery: I'm talking about some of the most loving and kind people who ever existed being treated like criminals because of a plant. One of the more saintly people I ever met (in an entirely different state) suddenly appeared in Prescott to wrap up her masters degree. She had to get permission from her probation officer just to leave PA and make the trip because of a nickel bag. Maybe "the law" is God to you. The criminal "justice" system is, in theory, supposed to protect the rest of us from people who are out to seriously harm others, not to control "the degenerate races" as Drug Czar Harvy Anslinger explained.

Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: locked out

If the UN is the key to preventing war,I'm afraid we are all locked out.

Posted: Friday, October 04, 2013
Article comment by: Oh Please

I was born in 1945, therefore my birth/life caused an end to world wars.

Dan, like many, you confuse correlation with causation. And like most, do so in a way that serves your personal political views.



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